Podcast Episode 8 Available
Second podcast today - right here:
Here is my short overview of where I think we stand with this debate, after a round of clarification with Don Johnson (see Episode 7) and going into next week’s discussion with Dr. Robert Price.
This is my attempt to lay out an overall structure of the disagreement. I think everything we’ve heard from both sides fits relatively well into this structure, and it should provide a solid platform for launching into some more specifics. Your feedback, comments and emails are highly valued - please keep them coming!
Please post comments or send your email to paul@opposingviews.net.
3 Comments on “Podcast Episode 8 Available”
Wow. Great podcast.
First of all, Robert Price is awesome. I think few people know more about early Christian history than he does - and he can dance circles around the most sincere apologists.
After listening to him for a long time and reading several of his books, I think I can safely say that Dr. Price would be perfectly willing to believe that zombies rose up out of their graves and walked around downtown Jerusalem (as stated in Matthew 27:51) - but, as any other rational person, he would require fantastic evidence to validate such an equally fantastic claim.
Of course, (outside various suburbs in Florida) there is NO evidence whatsoever of Jewish zombies. And if such an event actually occurred - we would no doubt have several non-biblical accounts of it. And yet, not even the bible itself corroborates the claim that dead bodies rose up out of the ground at the moment Jesus died. No other biblical author mentions it anywhere. But perhaps the most telling thing about the zombie story is that this clearly mythical event takes place right smack-dab in the middle of the most important few paragraphs in all of Christianity. Matthew (one of the four most reliable witnesses) is in the middle of describing the death and resurrection of JESUS CHRIST. Forget the great flood, the burning bush, and even the virgin birth - the death and resurrection of Jesus is THE event on which all else hangs. Any Christian will tell you, that without historical accuracy regarding of the death and (bodily) resurrection of Jesus Christ, the entire foundation of modern day Christianity crumbles.
So - a simple question… If Matthew can so nonchalantly throw in a couple of ridiculous lines about zombies just as he is penning to paper the greatest single event in the history of the world - what else might he have embellished? If I told you I was raised by a pack of turtles that flew to earth on a giant spaceship… which part of my story would you believe? Obviously, turtles don’t fly spaceships….
The truth is, the Royal Flush analogy doesn’t work. Royal Flushes ACTUALLY happen from time to time. I’ve even been unfortunate enough to be in a poker hand with one. But a man who walks on water, makes wine in seconds, and appears to 500 people after he died - doesn’t exactly happen… ever. As Dr. Price would admit, the stories about Jesus could have happened. But without any other evidence - why should we believe that it did happen? Simply because we read it in an endlessly revised, ancient manuscript of disputed origins, authorship, and testimony? No.
A poker hand is one thing - but see if Don can allow himself to admit that, based on evidence, Jesus Christ may not have actually risen from the dead. Then see if he will admit, based on evidence, that Muhammad and the angel Gabriel didn’t actually fly on a winged horse to Jerusalem one night.
If good explanations are needed, lets have a clear metric:
Here’s a list from Peter Carruthers:
Accuracy - predicting all or most of the data to be explained and explaining away the rest - i.e. showing where there may be errors of data collection or interpretation.
Consistency - that there are no contradictions within the theory or model.
Coherence - with surrounding beliefs and theories which are not to be superseded by the new, or at least consistency with them.
Simplicity - being expressible as economically as possible, with the fewest commitments to distinct kinds of fact and process.
Fecundity - making new predictions and suggesting new lines of enquiry.
Scope - unifying a diverse range of data.
It is obvious that Johnson (or any Supernaturalist) can address all of these with solid responses.
And, yes, the above post is correct, the poker hand analogy doesn’t work. It’s not as if there are random gods that appear and walk the Earth based on natural laws. Either god conforms to natural laws or doesn’t - there is no probability that you can apply to these events. In fact, there is NOTHING you can apply to these (alleged) events.
as the OP states, I wonder how Johnson’s supernatural ‘worldview’ precludes other gods or supernatural beings?
After all, once you allow the “supernatural” (whatever that is, btw) into your “logic” anything is possible. It’s a free for all!
I was wondering. Since Johnson claims to recognize the Supernatural (by claiming a dead guy contacted him via mind powers), i would like to walk around with him and see if he can show me what is supernatural in this world and what isn’t.
Since he can’t define it, maybe he can just point it out to me?